The Truth Behind "High Flow Catalytic Converters"

[PearlWhite05]

Anyone know what make or what types of High Flow Cat are available out in the market right now for TSX?

[MemphisRheins]

Im sure there are probably a few Generic applications out there that would work, however the only purpose built for the TSX that I know of right now, is the Random-Tech one, that Dzuy made a thread about

[dzuy]

random technology is the only tsx specific cat out there.

[WVT]

is there a website for that>?

[Noel]

You don't need specific catalytic converters, generic ones with the correct pipe size will do. Head down to any reputable exhaust/muffler shop in your area if you need one.

Upgrading or should I say changing catalytic converters does not net power gains.

[chuson]

I thought there's some HP/Torque gain on High-Flow Cat, and have been proven by dyno (RT and some other member on the other TSX forum)? If no performance gain, what does it gain then???

[Noel]

The catalytic converter on the CL9 is basically replaced when aftermarket exhaust manifolds have been upgraded. A simple catalytic converter does not net power gains because all catalytic converters are designed to reduce emissions.

There is no performance difference between a so called "high-flow" cat and a normal cat except for how it's been contructed/laid out inside either promoting flow or allowing normal flow. In either instance, it's definitely not worth the money simply pursuing virtually minimal purpose.

Even when running no catalytic converter only nets a bare minimal less than 5bhp on almost all NA 4 cylinder Hondas/Acuras. I cannot see a marginal improvement when 5bhp equates to almost neglible gains to begin with.

[PearlWhite05]

In other words, theres no point of getting a high flow cat. then? So whats all this talk bout power gains by changing stock cat.

[chuson]

I think THIS and THIS site shows how much gain w/ the RT Cat, it's a 200 or 300 cell catalyst convertor. It's been proved to increase 13whp & 10 lbs of TQ, and it's from one of the member's dyno.
It also helped shave off .3 of second on his 1/4 mile

[chuson]

Originally Posted by Noel

The catalytic converter on the CL9 is basically replaced when aftermarket exhaust manifolds have been upgraded. A simple catalytic converter does not net power gains because all catalytic converters are designed to reduce emissions.

There is no performance difference between a so called "high-flow" cat and a normal cat except for how it's been contructed/laid out inside either promoting flow or allowing normal flow. In either instance, it's definitely not worth the money simply pursuing virtually minimal purpose.

Even when running no catalytic converter only nets a bare minimal less than 5bhp on almost all NA 4 cylinder Hondas/Acuras. I cannot see a marginal improvement when 5bhp equates to almost neglible gains to begin with.

Hey Noel,
I noticed you are the technical mod here and by no means I'm challenging your facts. Just that I'm in the market of High-flow Cat as well, so I want to know if it's really help in performance gain~!

[Noel]

Originally Posted by chuson

THIS site shows how much gain w/ the RT Cat, it's a 200 or 300 cell catalyst convertor. It's been proved to increase 13whp & 10 lbs of TQ, and it's from one of the member's dyno. It also helped shave off .3 of second on his 1/4 mile.

I'm going to dis-sect this once only and explain exactly where you saw those magical 13whp & 10lbs torque gains. So everyone pay attention if you still think I'm writing rubbish factless statements.

Fact 1 - A catalytic converter replacement alone without any other modifications does NOT net any power gains.

I've proven this because the manufacturer of this particular product has not warrant or stated any claims or supported any in fact that using their product - Random Technology Catalytic Converter alone will net you power gains.

In fact, NO catalytic manufacturer will ever warrant such a statement because they know very well above any consumer that throws money at them, what the foundation/basis of a catalytic converter is designed to do - Reduce emissions at the same time reducing power/torque output. Plain simple.

Yes, you can reduce or control the emissions flow by using less catalytic converter material and it's not just limited to what Random Technology here has done to the product. This itself isn't going to be throwing you miracle power/torque gains.

Fact 2 - Car showing "impressive" power gains didn't simply have a Random Technology Catalytic Converter modification. Hence power gains are attributed by just about every other variable instead of simply the catalytic converter.

13whp & 10lbs torque seems to be the magic pulling numbers here. And where did this come from? This came from the following modifications to be more accurate instead. So if want these kinda power gains, you know what else you need to buy.

- Comptech Icebox / Intake
- Comptech SS Header / Exhaust Manifold
- Comptech Catback Exhuast
- Hondata Reflash

Fact 3 - When running no catalytic converter replaced with a test pipe only nets a bare minimal less than 5bhp on almost all NA 4 cylinder Hondas/Acuras with no forced induction or engine work. I cannot see a marginal improvement when 5bhp equates to almost neglible gains to begin with.

If you want true horsepower/torque gains and care about nothing else, a replacement test pipe is what you want - No honeycomb blocking exhaust flow, it just goes straight-thru to the end. Highly illegal in every state literally in exchange for that 5bhp alone for this modification.

So no block flow = 5bhp already equates to minimal gains and for what it's worth, it's definitely not worth it. A block flow regardless of how minimal as opposed to no blockage ain't going to be "impressively" pulling you magic 13whp & 10lbs torque.



Fact 4 - Image above shows this product which is not compatible with JDM performance exhaust manifolds designed for the CL7. So if you're going to buy a Toda, MaximWorks, M-Bit, Feels header. This catalytic converter isn't going to be bolting on to it anytime soon. This is strictly designed for CL9 exhaust manifolds aka headers only.

[Noel]

Originally Posted by PearlWhite05

In other words, theres no point of getting a high flow cat.

Yes ... There is no point simply getting a replacement "high flow" catalytic converter when there are no other supporting modifications in place. All you're doing is throwing money down the drain.

Originally Posted by PearlWhite05

So whats all this talk bout power gains by changing stock cat.

Nothing more than good old "snake oil" sales. Mis-informed/Mis-lead consumers believing everything manufacturers and marketing sells/throws at them.

[nachob]

Originally Posted by Noel

I'm going to dis-sect this once only and explain exactly where you saw those magical 13whp & 10lbs torque gains. So everyone pay attention if you still think I'm writing rubbish factless statements.

Fact 1 - A catalytic converter replacement alone without any other modifications does NOT net any power gains.

I've proven this because the manufacturer of this particular product has not warrant or stated any claims or supported any in fact that using their product - Random Technology Catalytic Converter alone will net you power gains.

In fact, NO catalytic manufacturer will ever warrant such a statement because they know very well above any consumer that throws money at them, what the foundation/basis of a catalytic converter is designed to do - Reduce emissions at the same time reducing power/torque output. Plain simple.

Yes, you can reduce or control the emissions flow by using less catalytic converter material and it's not just limited to what Random Technology here has done to the product. This itself isn't going to be throwing you miracle power/torque gains.

Fact 2 - Car showing "impressive" power gains didn't simply have a Random Technology Catalytic Converter modification. Hence power gains are attributed by just about every other variable instead of simply the catalytic converter.

13whp & 10lbs torque seems to be the magic pulling numbers here. And where did this come from? This came from the following modifications to be more accurate instead. So if want these kinda power gains, you know what else you need to buy.

- Comptech Icebox / Intake
- Comptech SS Header / Exhaust Manifold
- Comptech Catback Exhuast
- Hondata Reflash

Fact 3 - When running no catalytic converter replaced with a test pipe only nets a bare minimal less than 5bhp on almost all NA 4 cylinder Hondas/Acuras with no forced induction or engine work. I cannot see a marginal improvement when 5bhp equates to almost neglible gains to begin with.

If you want true horsepower/torque gains and care about nothing else, a replacement test pipe is what you want - No honeycomb blocking exhaust flow, it just goes straight-thru to the end. Highly illegal in every state literally in exchange for that 5bhp alone for this modification.

So no block flow = 5bhp already equates to minimal gains and for what it's worth, it's definitely not worth it. A block flow regardless of how minimal as opposed to no blockage ain't going to be "impressively" pulling you magic 13whp & 10lbs torque.



Fact 4 - Image above shows this product which is not compatible with JDM performance exhaust manifolds designed for the CL7. So if you're going to buy a Toda, MaximWorks, M-Bit, Feels header. This catalytic converter isn't going to be bolting on to it anytime soon. This is strictly designed for CL9 exhaust manifolds aka headers only.

NOEL, you and Lanny are studs.

I spent several years as a test technician for Nissan's GTP program working in the dyno and I am always shocked at how freely people throw large HP gains around. I can tell you that HP does not come easily or cheaply. Power is achieved from a combination of intake and exhaust as it relates to engine speed. So basically, if you can get more exhaust out, that's nice but you also need to get more fuel in and increase the RPMs. Generally you have a little room to get more fuel in with Cams, injectors, KN filters then you need a good exhaust to get it out. This will only work to a point. The bottom line is you need both intake and exhaust to get more power.

[Noel]

Originally Posted by nachob

I spent several years as a test technician for Nissan's GTP program working in the dyno and I am always shocked at how freely people throw large HP gains around. I can tell you that HP does not come easily or cheaply.

Excellent follow-up there. Yet another professional putting his weight behind the truth seperating the facts from the myths and endless marketing sales pitches that tuners/manufacturers spin out.

Ironically, the technical world almost always sings a different tune to the sales world. After all, one is a true reality check while the other plays alot on the weak and applies the placebo effect with great hype.

Doesn't the truth hurt?

[chuson]

Hey Noel~
Thx for the explaination~!
So... I WILL NOT get any performance gain IF, my car is totally stock and only replace the High-Flow Cat? Is that what you mean?
If my car is planning to replace Injen CAI, Comptech Header but stock exhaust, will I see any gain? I read alot of review and user experience on Exhaust, it gives you a better tuned sound but no performance gain at all, is that true?