5AT Sport Shift - Manual Mode?

[2K5TSX]

Hey guys. I'm coming from a 5MT civic, where I always had power on tap through a downshift. I switched to 5AT for my wife and for the traffic I experience on a daily basis. Occasionally though on highway mergers and @ at stop lights, I take off using manual mode sport shift.

Does this mode put a lot of strain, or premature wear on the auto tranny? I tend to rev it high to tap into peak power around 6000 RPM. I don't want a new tranny in 6-7 years... but i want to enjoy my car. What do you guys think?

[pianoman529]

Not being an expert at this subject, I would assume that it wouldn't wear and tear much on the car or the transmission. If it did a lot then they wouldn't have put it in or they would have limited it to not cause damage. If you go to redline a lot then that might do something, but I doubt otherwise.

[BIGOOLS]

The only problem I could see would be the downshift, making the revs jump like that. I read once in the forums where someone once said "brakes are alot cheaper to replace than a tranny" so take it for what it is worth. But I think that repeated hard driving on any car or transmission has to be somewhat taxing on the car.

[pianoman529]

I'd think if you stepped off the accelerator whiel you downshift for a split second and then step back on it once its fully shifted it wouldn't cause any damage.

[Duke]

People ask this question a lot.

No, you won't really add wear to the transmission. It's designed to take it. Plus, the transmission is electronically controlled, meaning that if you call for a downshift that would potentially overrev the engine, it won't make the shift until the revs fall to where they would be safe after the downshift.

That being said, drive the car and let it shift itself for a while. You'll find the TSX has one of the nicest automatics going. Like you, I normally drive an MTX but we bought my wife's TSX in ATX. The thing monitors throttle input, cornering and braking forces, and even pitch, then adjusts its shift points to match the agression level of your driving. If you're on it fairly hard, and doing a lot of stiff braking and brisk cornering, you'll find the ATX begins to downshift as you brake and hold the lower gear for acceleration, just like you would yourself. It also downshifts when it senses you're braking down a steepish incline.

Overall, I drove the car in "manumatic" mode for a few weeks before realizing that it did a fine job itself. Now I only do it if I really feel like playing.

Welcome to TSX ownership and TSXClub!

[2K5TSX]

Originally Posted by Duke

Welcome to TSX ownership and TSXClub!

Thanks for the reassurance Duke. This forum is great, I am a regular forum member of Vtec.net, but I find there are barely any TSX drivers who post. It's great that everyone drives a TSX here

[xuimod]

don't worry about a thing.

honestly, IMO it would be very difficult to damage the transmission using manual mode. clutchless manuals have been around for a very long time, the technology is very mature. in fact, Honda is coming out with a subcompact with paddle shifters in March or April (called the Honda Fit), with its AT u can change the gears maually using paddles behind the steering wheel. Honda wouldn't put this technology in a $13-14k car (the price of the Fit) that will probably sell hundreds of thousands unless it were completely sure this technology was completely harmless to the transmission.

btw, Porsche has clutchless manuals in their Boxters (Tiptronic) and Ferrari has clutchless manuals on their cars too. My Dad's Mercedes has a clutchless manual (i tried it for the first time last week, it was soooo fun, much more fun than automatic).

F1 drivers use cluchless manuals (paddle shifters). And Honda has F1 cars so Honda definately knows clutchless manual technology.

u have nothing to worry about. downshift, upshift to ur hearts delight (the rev limiter is there in case u really, really over-rev). Honda engines are meant to be revved hard and often.

[aaron33]

TSX is an AT, not a clutchless manual.

Originally Posted by xuimod

don't worry about a thing.

honestly, IMO it would be very difficult to damage the transmission using manual mode. clutchless manuals have been around for a very long time, the technology is very mature. in fact, Honda is coming out with a subcompact with paddle shifters in March or April (called the Honda Fit), with its AT u can change the gears maually using paddles behind the steering wheel. Honda wouldn't put this technology in a $13-14k car (the price of the Fit) that will probably sell hundreds of thousands unless it were completely sure this technology was completely harmless to the transmission.

btw, Porsche has clutchless manuals in their Boxters (Tiptronic) and Ferrari has clutchless manuals on their cars too. My Dad's Mercedes has a clutchless manual (i tried it for the first time last week, it was soooo fun, much more fun than automatic).

F1 drivers use cluchless manuals (paddle shifters). And Honda has F1 cars so Honda definately knows clutchless manual technology.

u have nothing to worry about. downshift, upshift to ur hearts delight (the rev limiter is there in case u really, really over-rev). Honda engines are meant to be revved hard and often.

[kyotousa]

i wish we got clutchless manual

[aaron33]

Well, it still has a clutch but it is controlled by the ECU. The problem is the jerkyness. Only Ferrari's latest F1 system in the F430 is smooth. I tried the lower end stuff like the 6MT sequential manual in the Smart cars, and those are piss ass rough. I could shift smoother than it. Heck, when I was on my L license, I could shift smoother than the Smart. Try it out and hate it.

[xuimod]

Originally Posted by kyotousa

i wish we got clutchless manual

hey, that's what they're called. Tiptronic, Sport AT (mazda's), Sportshift (Acura), 4matic (mercedes) and a bunch of others, they're all clutchless manuals. Apparently thats news to you.

[FiVa]

Originally Posted by xuimod

hey, that's what they're called. Tiptronic, Sport AT (mazda's), Sportshift (Acura), 4matic (mercedes) and a bunch of others, they're all clutchless manuals. Apparently thats news to you.

Um..i think those are not clutchless manual...and 4matic of Mercedes is the name of the all wheel drive model for Merc.
Now i think BMW's SMG and Audi's DSG, Ferrari's F1 paddle shift, and etc are clutchless manual.

http://www.tsxclub.com/forums/showpo...98&postcount=8

[MemphisRheins]

Originally Posted by xuimod

hey, that's what they're called. Tiptronic, Sport AT (mazda's), Sportshift (Acura), 4matic (mercedes) and a bunch of others, they're all clutchless manuals. Apparently thats news to you.

I guess if you really want to call the TSX a Clutchless manual, you could, since it has entirely no clutch.

What the TSX does have though is a system that controls the torque converter, note the 5AT has a Torque converter, not a full clutch, this general idea of a "Tiptronic, Sport Shift, ect" is an old idea...
The 1970 Dodge Challenger had a "Slap Stick" Automatic... just to throw a name out there.

Now tranny's arnt my specialty, so Id recommend going to howstuffworks.com and looking up how an Automatic tranny works...as far as I can tell though, all the "Sport Shift" is doing, is telling the ECU to select different ratio in the planetary gear-set (Check the figure on the bottom of this page: http://auto.howstuffworks.com/automa...nsmission3.htm)

so no sorry to disappoint you, but the TSX has a fully Automatic Transmission, not a Clutch-less manual like the SMG BMW or AMG Mercedes... which is one of the reasons why the 5AT is slower then the 6MT, and gets worse gas milage, (other reasons being its heavier) At high speeds with a Manual, the Tranny and the engine are spinning at the same speed (ideally) with a Torque converter, that is simply not possible, and the tranny will always be slower then the engine.

[xuimod]

Originally Posted by MemphisRheins

I guess if you really want to call the TSX a Clutchless manual, you could, since it has entirely no clutch.

What the TSX does have though is a system that controls the torque converter, note the 5AT has a Torque converter, not a full clutch, this general idea of a "Tiptronic, Sport Shift, ect" is an old idea...
The 1970 Dodge Challenger had a "Slap Stick" Automatic... just to throw a name out there.

Now tranny's arnt my specialty, so Id recommend going to howstuffworks.com and looking up how an Automatic tranny works...as far as I can tell though, all the "Sport Shift" is doing, is telling the ECU to select different ratio in the planetary gear-set (Check the figure on the bottom of this page: http://auto.howstuffworks.com/automa...nsmission3.htm)

so no sorry to disappoint you, but the TSX has a fully Automatic Transmission, not a Clutch-less manual like the SMG BMW or AMG Mercedes... which is one of the reasons why the 5AT is slower then the 6MT, and gets worse gas milage, (other reasons being its heavier) At high speeds with a Manual, the Tranny and the engine are spinning at the same speed (ideally) with a Torque converter, that is simply not possible, and the tranny will always be slower then the engine.

Yeah okay but my point was (to answer the OP's original question) that using Sportshift on the TSX doesn't do any harm to the transmission.

I could probably discuss/debate 'clutchless manuals' (ie Tiptronic, Sport AT, Sportshift) for a very long time but, to me, the whole concept behind all these systems is the same, using a lever or buttons or paddles to have some control over shifting. Some systems give the driver more control than others and the different systems may be implemented differently on a mechanical level but, to me, the end result is the same. Changing a car's gears without using a clutch. Which comes in very handy in stop and go or city driving.

[kyotousa]

are you saying we are using the same same technology as F1, Ferrari, or BMW sequential shift........

if you are not..then i am fine with whatever you said