Question about Hondata...

Acurasrule · 09-15-2006, 06:03 PM

I know there have been alot of posts/threads about Hondata, but this was just more of a general question, that I haven’t really been able to figure out.

If Hondata is able to increase the HP and Torque by a pretty decent amount, why are the cars from the factory "tuned down" I guess you could say?

In other words, if hondata is able to add on another 15hp or so, why isn't Acura essentially selling there cars with the ECU's already programmed to get the maximum performance out of them?

The engines are obviously capable of doing it, which hondata proves, wouldn't Acura rather sell there car with 215-220 HP then 205 or whatever it is??

Just a question that I have been wondering about, since I am considering get the Hondata reflash for my 06 TSX, and was wondering if anybody has any info/facts from honda/acura, as to why there ECU are tuned how they are, and not to apparently more powerful levels?

Thanks for any info anyone can share, and hopefully this isn't a repost or anything like that.

rawdizzle · 09-15-2006, 06:09 PM

good question... id love to give you some obvious reason but well i have none..

i bought the hondata and love it. 06mt

ralphymacchio · 09-15-2006, 06:42 PM

i think its because you didnt do a search...

kidding

my guess is Acura wants to make a power band that is both good for the non-enthusiast and the enthusiast. fuel economy might have something to do with it too. Im guessing that any car when tuned differently can produce more hp and tq then the factory settings.
Personally i think the stock ecu map is good as far as spirited driving is concerned, but the hondata does help imo.
A good example of Honda tuning a car perfectly is the S2000. Although u cant tune every car to its max performance out of the box, if thats not what you are going for with the car.

I think a better "i wonder why" question would be, the drive by wire and why they did such a conservative pause between shifts.

-phase- · 09-15-2006, 11:53 PM

i agree with RM, most people look at fuel economy when purchasing cars, and with built-in hondata from the factory, the fuel economy must be very poor compared to other cars with the competition.

honda has always advertised the civic for example with great fuel economy

also, doesn't it put a lot of stress on the engine with hondata? i may be wrong, but revving it past redline all the time cannot be good for the engine

rawdizzle · 09-18-2006, 01:36 PM

well ill chime in since i have the hondata

mpg to date without flash 26mpg highway
after flash 24.7 mpg - although it could be my driving style since i tend to drive a little harder with the reflash than stock. i dont really think the reflash itself will affect your mpg, in many cases they lean out the car to make more hp. Also note that the power gains of the reflash were not up top as compared to stock, as more throughout the midrange and upper rpm (better daily driving power). The reflash according to hondatas website's dyno did not lose any low end power compared to stock so there is really no compromise between stock and tuned. Which leaves us back at square one, why not offer this package stock or in the Aspec platform. I dont know. I think that Hondata's tunning is much derived from the JDM spec cars. Since the TSX is not a type s or r maybe the detuning of its ecu keeps their product lines to spec. which is what i really think ultimatly controls the power output of the tsx. To much power other product lines that may be 20 grand more will suffer

... all in all the reflash really isnt that aggressive to deter potential grandma drivers and I still dont understand the concept of detuning an engine of its fullest potential

ps- and the raised rev limit is not at all that aggressive to say that it will lead to premature engine failure especially since the max hp is not untill redline. ie vtex powa

oh and ralphy- After really getting to take the car for a nice long drive this past weekend i was really able to get a feel for the reflash, and while aggressivly driving the pause between shifts is really non existent, it can be most felt from 1st to 2nd while speed shifting like vin diesel but its really subtle waaaaaaay less than stocks car hits brick wall, sun sets than rises a new day is born, shift click gas

so there is def something accomplished alot more than just numbers with this flash. to sum it up car feels like a bseries now, some may like it some may not.

Type R Positive · 09-21-2006, 02:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acurasrule

If Hondata is able to increase the HP and Torque by a pretty decent amount, why are the cars from the factory "tuned down" I guess you could say?

In other words, if hondata is able to add on another 15hp or so, why isn't Acura essentially selling there cars with the ECU's already programmed to get the maximum performance out of them?

That is an easy one to answer.

It is simply because of USA's poor fuel quality. Your fuel contains 15% ethanol does it not?

The Japanese programmed the computer for the worse case possible.

The hondata adds a lot more power to the Aussie spec cars because we have better fuel than you guys.

devore · 09-21-2006, 11:54 AM

Here's my take:

Acura is considering lots of different factors when deciding how the engine is tuned: power, fuel economy, engine noise, engine longevity, an unknown user base, product placement and multi-year marketing.

What we want is just: more power. When you throw out all the other factors, tuning the motor so it makes as much power as it reasonably can makes sense. But if you factor back in all those other things, "the most power" may not be the right answer for Acura, even if it is the right answer for us on these forums.

(Consider computer chip manufacturers like Intel or AMD. Most CPUs you purchase can actually be operated at a higher speed, it's called overclocking for folks not familiar with this. Why doesn't Intel sell chips that are as fast as they can make them? Same reasons: CPU life, heat dissipation issues, a conservative failure margin, product placement, and multi-year marketing. Why sell a 2Ghz chip today when you can sell a 1.8Ghz chip today and a 2Ghz chip a year later and still have folks buy them?)

Tsx536 · 09-21-2006, 02:47 PM

Honda has to tune the car to account for people who do not take care of the car. There are people out there that do not maintain their car and might even use 87 octane gas. So as mentioned above, the car is tuned to account for this worse case scenario.

If you get the Hondata reflash, it is assumed that you will always use premium fuel and do regular maintenance on your car.

BlueTSX05 · 09-21-2006, 02:57 PM

have they come out with it yet for the 05 AT's?

devore · 09-21-2006, 04:06 PM

I thought the ECU adjusted the mix if you used non-premium fuel, rather than the tuning of the motor being able to accomodate it.

rawdizzle · 09-21-2006, 04:44 PM

you can run 87 octane with the reflash. Keep in mind our TSX's are equipped with knock sensors that if detonation is detected then the timing is backed off to prevent further damage.. When the timing is pulled back you lose hp. Also note you are supposed to run premium unleaded only stock anyways.

rawdizzle · 09-21-2006, 04:46 PM

blue tsx
Nothing will be made for the 05 TSX the ecu is locked out completly to hondata. your only hope is to find someone 04 or 06 AT with an ecu thats already been reflashed and swap your ecu and immobilizer for theres.

Tsx536 · 09-21-2006, 05:24 PM

The 05 MT TSX has a reflash out so not all 05 TSX ECUs can't be reflashed. Also I've heard from Hondata that the problem with the 05 AT reflash is that the VIN number is embedded somewhere in the ECU and that the reflash might be able to be detected during a smog check.

You need an 04 ECU to make this work. Because of the extra power and parts added to the 06 TSX, an 06 ECU is a little different. Find a stock 04 AT ECU, match the immobolizer and key to your current set, and send it into Hondata for the reflash.

BlueTSX05 · 09-21-2006, 06:08 PM

well so much for that idea, damn