RRC intake manifold

[xjohnkdoex]

so there was some discussion over at a-zine about the RRC intake manifold, but since i'm bored and wanted to know more info about it, i'd figure i'd just bring it up over here.



here's a link to the honda japan page for the white paper and some spec comparisons vs. the DC5 IM: LINK

so this seems like a direct bolt-on. everything i've read indicates it's for DBW, i think it has the same diameter opening as the 06+ TSX's (64mm).

would the RRC IM add anything to our cars? i'm not an expert in this stuff, and everything i've read seems to indicate that that RBC IM is better for higher-revving cars and top-end gains, and the stock TSX IM is better for low-to-mid-range torque. so being that this is coming off a civic type-R in japan, maybe it's not ideal? i can't seem to find specs on the stock TSX IM (ie. runner length, diameter, volume/amount of air pushed through) to make a comparison.

of course, a dyno would probably answer the question. part costs like $350 w/o shipping on some sites.

[a2dadamm]

from what i've herd/read it will only benifit if your reving high like 8k and up..


but im not expert either just going on what i've read since i was looking into this as well, but im not gonna build my motor so it seems useless for me at least..

[spoonfed]

I wouldn't consider myself a K series expert myself (kuma912 comes to mind for great knowledge and input) but I feel I have done a fair amount of research for an N/A build that I am interested in.
This new RRC manifold is a very close comparison to the Euro-R RBC manifold but appears to be a better performer for top end as the ports appear larger and straighter and also looks to be an easier bolt on for us.
Looking at the TB opening, there is no IACV (Idle Air Control Valve) port like the RBC as our TB and the RRC TB are both Drive by Wire so our RBB and the RRC both appear to share the same TB opening. As far as mm's are concerned I have not looked into the TB size for the RRC.
The only items I can't confirm would be the supporting mounting points for accessories. The only way to know is for someone to try or to do a more detailed side by side between the RBB and RRC.
After seeing the RRC, I would definately go with this over the RBC.

[xjohnkdoex]

yeah, that's what i figured as far as the higher-end gains go. i guess the build is still similar to the RBC, maybe the net effect still wouldn't be ideal for our car.

here's a side-by-side comparison from another forum. guy highlights a lot of the differences.

[spoonfed]

I saw that same side by side. What we need is a side by side of ours (RBB) and the RRC.

[xjohnkdoex]

Originally Posted by spoonfed

I saw that same side by side. What we need is a side by side of ours (RBB) and the RRC.

LOL. my bad, i misread your post. all the R's and B's threw me off.

yeah. a side-by-side vs. ours would be good.

[evertp1]

The RBC and RRC are similar manifold. Basically they were designed for the motor that it was to be bolted on to...
comparison:
Civic Si
197 bhp
139 ft/lbf
11.0:1
Redline: 8000 rpm

vs

Civic Type R
11.7:1
222 bhp
158 ft/lbf
Redline: 8600 rpm
HUGE torque difference

for those of you who do know, more air = more power
The RBC would be better for our K24 motors. we would loose a lot of bottom end with the RRC. plus you can get the RBC for half the price

[xjohnkdoex]

i know more air = more power.

it's just that my impression of the RBC based on what i read was always gain more top, lose some bottom. and i don't want to lose and low/mid considering that's where our car needs the most help.

[Noel]

The idea of bolting on a K20a intake manifold (plenum) onto a K24a has been around since 2003. I don't agree that this is a true improvement modification for the CL9 as the CL9 has a lower RPM rev range and is ideally designed for more low to mid range torque and power gains.

The K24a has a completely different tuning and output perspective vs. the K20a. One has stronger torque for general driveability in all conditions while the other is a high revving answer to Honda's current generation of high RPM, high BHP output.

With Honda engines since the blueprint of DOHC VTEC engines were designed, they were always compensating torque to attain the high RPM bhp output. In reality, this also translates to poor torque and suffered general driveability. As every tuner will put it, it's okay in a competitive environment (in this scenario, you are constantly sitting inside the VTEC powerband and have no problems extracting power from the engine to the wheels efficiently) but fail to mention the other part.

Retaining the K24a intake manifold for the torque advantage is a better use in the CL9 because the chassis is heavier than a DC5 and EP3. Torque is used to compensate the heavier weight, and ultimately, the K24a isn't a high revving engine, which negates any gains when using a K20a tuning concept on a K24a.

[chuson]

It will be great for those who's planning to get K-Pro, where you can take advantage its design for high rpm (7500-9000rpm range).

[evertp1]

Originally Posted by xjohnkdoex

i know more air = more power.

it's just that my impression of the RBC based on what i read was always gain more top, lose some bottom. and i don't want to lose and low/mid considering that's where our car needs the most help.

just compare our Intake manifold to the RBC...
ours has relatively skinnier, long intake runners... the RBC is a lot shorter.
Ours is built for torque as that is what our cars required, which is what noel mentioned, and the RBC is for high revving motors... ex Civic SI... and it would work a lot better if Kpro was involved in the equation as you would be able to tune the power out of the motor

[Noel]

ECU tuned to run 9000 RPMs isn't a problem. However, the engine does require some fairly extensive work to ensure it can produce power, prevent valve float and maintain longevity.

Titanium valve springs.
Titanium retainers.
Higher compression gasket.
More lumpy cams.
Uprated pistons.

Then, it'd be a different story altogether. Which I believe owners who are willing to go so far will choose the easier route of go the bolt-on CTSC route.

[TSX_WS]

^ RBC maybe helpful to those who have aftermarket cams which are thirstier for air. K24 is simply not meant to be revved past 8000 rpms

[kuma912]

RBC Manifold vs RRC Manifold - K20A.org .:. The K Series Source . Honda / Acura K20a k24a Engine Forum


And one more thing regarding revving the K24 to 9k.

At 7900 rpm the K20 has a piston speed of 4464 feet per minute (fpm). Thanks to its long stroke, the K24 comes close to that, running at 4225 fpm at 6500 rpm. By the time you've spun your K24 up to just 6900 rpm, you're already at 4485 fpm, and at 7900 rpm, you're at a crazy 5135 fpm. For comparison, even the hyperkinetic F20 with 9000 rpm doesn't exceed 5000 fpm. The B18 only reaches 4573 fpm.

[1TSXer]

^wow, that's some good info