Dyno shows possible incorrect ecu reflash

CCColtsicehockey · 06-03-2009, 11:48 AM

So over the weekend I attended a free car show with a couple friends at UTI Automotive school near Philadelphia. They were doing free dyno run so I decided why not give it a shot since I haven’t had time to do it. Well let’s just say that was a big mistake. They had no idea how to run it. I had a run of 115hp and 286.7ftlbs. My a/f ratio also read 10.1 the entire time. So needless to say that was a joke but I also wanted to look into the a/f reading even though I just figured out it was a result of those that didn’t actually know what they were doing to run the machine.

So Monday night I went to a local shop to get a proper dyno done. They have a Dyno Pack dyno which connects directly to the hubs without the wheels. I was kind of disappointed at the results to say the least. For those that don’t know the car or don’t remember what is on it, it is Comptech Supercharger, J’s Racing Intake, Comptech Header, RT High Flow Cat, J’s Racing 60rs Exhaust. The numbers I got were 215.9hp and 173.4ftlbs. My air fuel ratio was still not exactly right but I could remember the actual specs of the supercharger and ecu reflash for it for the life of me while at the shop so I didn’t realize the possible issue at hand till I got home. While at the dyno it was appearing like VTEC was not engaging until 5000rpms. I also remembered that I can take the car all the way up to 7600rpms before it redlines when I drive it. I didn’t think the supercharger reflash was set this high and when I got home sure as can be those are the specs of the standard reflash for the TSX. I have never had the standard reflash done before getting the supercharger. I then went to ct-engineering site and looked at the supercharger specs to confirm the redline should be at 7200rpms and the VTEC engagement point should be at 3000rpms.

This is crazy if I ended up with the wrong reflash. I have had the supercharger installed since last august however I have put maybe 2000 miles on it since it has been on at best and never had time to get it dynoed before going back to school. I haven’t had a chance to pull the ecu yet to look at the hondata sticker but I am pretty sure it said supercharger reflash when I received it back or I wouldn’t have put it in the car. Hondata says the only thing I would get for my troubles is a free reflash to the proper reflash and that’s after I pay to ship it to them. I expect my shipping should be covered as well as a possible discount on the kpro because this is ridiculous if it ends up being confirmed.

So I would love some input from people based on my dyno graph compared to TSX536 first dyno graph (hope you don’t mind me using it) which in my opinion clearly can be seen the difference in the VTEC point. So based on the two dyno graphs do you believe I have the incorrect reflash.
Also if it is the incorrect reflash how much damage could I have done to the engine having the wrong fuel maps and engagement points and what not.

My Dyno Graphs

TSX536 Dyno

audioserf · 06-03-2009, 12:00 PM

Damn Colts, that is nuts. Something looks really out of wack here. I don't think you have damaged anything -- the ACM controls fuel, and as long as that's working properly, you're okay. I would get that reflash sorted out, and would fully expect it to be at 0 cost to you, since Hondata goofed.

CoopEuroR · 06-03-2009, 12:20 PM

I agree with Audio, thats definitely Hondata's mistake and they should take care of shipping. It obvious the reflash wasnt correct by your dyno sheets and the vtec engagement point... i'm surprised hondata isn't being more responsible for this mess up.

CCColtsicehockey · 06-03-2009, 12:28 PM

Well I am not blaming them yet as they haven't seen the dyno charts yet as I only called them about it yesterday. However the guy I talked to made it sound like there was almost no chance it was their fault and that most likely it was gonna be something wrong that was my fault. If it is messed up I want the $75 they charge to reflash that I am not going to have to pay to have it fixed added on top of $100 you get off the kpro if you already have a reflash. Plus I feel I should be receiving some more compensation as well.

audioserf · 06-03-2009, 01:12 PM

Sounds like it's K-Pro time.

Pacemaker_Guy · 06-03-2009, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by audioserf

Sounds like it's K-Pro time.

EuroRspec · 06-03-2009, 03:48 PM

Hondata should cover this with no questions asked, especially the amount of money they make of the TSX forums.

TSX_WS · 06-03-2009, 04:24 PM

This is an outrage!

Sure I had my car dyno'd 7HP less after I got pulleys and cat installed..... but this just made me speechless.

griffojm · 06-03-2009, 04:24 PM

How could this be your fault? You ordered a CT supercharger, and a reflash comes with this package, right? I don't see where you could be at fault with this.

I would think that Hondata owes you money AND an apology. (My humble opinion)

evertp1 · 06-03-2009, 04:27 PM

Can anyone else with an 04/05 TSX with a supercharger conform that these numbers are incorrect or false? I know you may have been expecting more, but your car is an automatic 04. When we had a dyno meet up here, people with 04/05s were pushing 160-180 with all the bells and whistles manual and auto. And the supercharger is suppose to add about 50HP+/- at the wheels?

btw, how much were you expecting? Redo the dyno with the properly flashed ECU and then see what happens

(nothing against auto/04 TSX BTW I used to have an 04 myself)

CCColtsicehockey · 06-03-2009, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by evertp1

Can anyone else with an 04/05 TSX with a supercharger conform that these numbers are incorrect or false? I know you may have been expecting more, but your car is an automatic 04. When we had a dyno meet up here, people with 04/05s were pushing 160-180 with all the bells and whistles manual and auto. And the supercharger is suppose to add about 50HP+/- at the wheels?

btw, how much were you expecting? Redo the dyno with the properly flashed ECU and then see what happens

(nothing against auto/04 TSX BTW I used to have an 04 myself)

Well first off, my primary issue is the fact that VTEC is not engaging when it should be. Secondly I made 8hp less with more mods than TSX536. Specifically the difference between having a high flow cat and not having one which on a non supercharged TSX has already proven to be like 7-8hp difference by itself. So yeah I would have to say I am expecting at least 10hp more really though should be about 15hp more. I should easily have been able to be between 225-230 no problem.

evertp1 · 06-03-2009, 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CCColtsicehockey

Well first off, my primary issue is the fact that VTEC is not engaging when it should be. Secondly I made 8hp less with more mods than TSX536. Specifically the difference between having a high flow cat and not having one which on a non supercharged TSX has already proven to be like 7-8hp difference by itself. So yeah I would have to say I am expecting at least 10hp more really though should be about 15hp more. I should easily have been able to be between 225-230 no problem.

How long did it take you to do the dyno runs and how many did you do? I remember when I once went to do a dyno run, and I forgot to let the car warm up and it doesn't hit VTEC on a cold motor...
However, I am not sure if the same rules apply with the reflash or with the CT SC reflash as well. So what it comes down to is the ECU.
Although it is not hitting VTEC at the right point, it should still read more top end power even if it hits VTEC late IMO

Tsx536 · 06-03-2009, 08:20 PM

^^ Same rule does apply. No Vtec until the Engine has warmed up.

What gear did you do these pulls in? Your AF ratio sounds really rich. It should not be at 10.1 the whole time. Should be closer to 11.8-12.0 under boost. That rich of a AF ratio will lead to less power. The Comptech ACM is what controls the fuel under boost. The shop you went to for the dyno is actually pretty well known in the RSX world, were they able to confirm that vtec wasn't engaging until 5K RPMs?

I agree that your numbers should be higher. Have you ever dynoed somewhere else? Numbers to vary from dyno to dyno.

CCColtsicehockey · 06-03-2009, 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tsx536

^^ Same rule does apply. No Vtec until the Engine has warmed up.

What gear did you do these pulls in? Your AF ratio sounds really rich. It should not be at 10.1 the whole time. Should be closer to 11.8-12.0 under boost. That rich of a AF ratio will lead to less power. The Comptech ACM is what controls the fuel under boost. The shop you went to for the dyno is actually pretty well known in the RSX world, were they able to confirm that vtec wasn't engaging until 5K RPMs?

I agree that your numbers should be higher. Have you ever dynoed somewhere else? Numbers to vary from dyno to dyno.

No those dyno numbers are not from the 10.1. The 10.1 was at UTI where they had no idea what they were doing. Yeah Innovative Motorworks is well known. Derrick the guy that dynoed the car has a Jackson Racing Supercharged k20 in his civic coupe. He said he is positive that VTEC was not engaging until 5k rpms. I don't personally have the air fuel mapping but the air fuel mapping was showing 14.5 to start and then as it got closer to 5k it got down to 12 and slightly into the 11s like it should. I still think it was getting there right at boost though. Pretty sure the pulls were done in 3rd gear but it might have been 4th. However I he tried 4th for the first pull and immediately switched to 3rd.

CCColtsicehockey · 06-03-2009, 09:40 PM

I checked the ECU tonight and without even removing it I could see the sticker that says Comptech Reflash on it so I guess I am going to have to send it out to have it checked now since there is no other way to check the ecu now to my knowledge.